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class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset-3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-top-infos\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-name\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003EElmar Oberd\u00f6rffer\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-created\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003EVor 4 Monate 2 Wochen\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset-1 view-comment-row\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-body\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-comment-body\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Cp\u003E\u003Cstrong class=\u0022highlight-green\u0022\u003E@Manfred M\u00fchlbacher\u003C\/strong\u003E Ein \u00fcberzeugender Grund, an die Existenz des dreifaltigen Gottes zu glauben, ist die Auferstehung Jesu von den Toten. Jesu J\u00fcnger haben den auferstandenen Jesus, den menschgewordenen Sohn Gottes, des Vaters, gesehen, gesprochen, haben ihn ber\u00fchrt, mit ihm gegessen, sind mit ihm nach Emmaus gewandert und haben schlie\u00dflich seine Himmelfahrt erlebt. Das war f\u00fcr sie erlebte Wahrheit, und sie haben sich lieber umbringen lassen, historisch verb\u00fcrgt, als diese Wahrheit zu verleugnen. 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class=\u0022views-field views-field-nothing view-comment-row\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022js-ajax-comments-id-node-1314-field-comment-4695\u0022\u003E\n \u003Cdiv class=\u0022js-ajax-comments-id-4695\u0022\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\n  \u003C\/div\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv data-uuid=\u0022110c7cfd-ff9c-48b1-8c26-b73b14b11855\u0022 class=\u0022view-comment views-row comment-reply\u0022 style=\u0022--thread: 0\u0022\u003E\n      \n\n\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset view-comment-row\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-top\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-value\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022comment-count-wrapper\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022icon icon-corrigenda\u0022\u003E\u003C\/span\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022comment-count-value\u0022\u003E0\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset-3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-top-infos\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-name\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003EManfred M\u00fchlbacher\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-created\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003EVor 4 Monate 2 Wochen\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset-1 view-comment-row\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-body\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-comment-body\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Cp\u003E\u003Cstrong class=\u0022highlight-green\u0022\u003E@Elmar Oberd\u00f6rffer\u003C\/strong\u003E Wie kannst du feststellen, ob die Bereitschaft von Menschen, f\u00fcr eine \u00dcberzeugung zu sterben, ein verl\u00e4ssliches Kriterium daf\u00fcr ist, dass diese \u00dcberzeugung wahr ist \u2013 und nicht einfach nur zeigt, dass sie selbst davon \u00fcberzeugt waren?\u003C\/p\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset-2 view-comment-row\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-footer\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-replyto-comment\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Ca class=\u0022use-ajax js-use-ajax-comments 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data-drupal-selector=\u0022form-kyjd3wfh4py3mpnnqe-3pvai1kd1mfup84jdqphdtwe\u0022 type=\u0022hidden\u0022 name=\u0022form_build_id\u0022 value=\u0022form-KYJD3wfh4pY3MPnnqe_3PVAi1kD1MFUP84JDQPHdtwE\u0022 \/\u003E\n\u003Cinput data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-comment-article-4710-updown-recommend-comment-0\u0022 type=\u0022hidden\u0022 name=\u0022form_id\u0022 value=\u0022comment_article_4710_updown_recommend_comment_0\u0022 \/\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class=\u0022arocom-antispam-container\u0022 style=\u0022display: none !important;\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022js-form-item form-item js-form-type-textfield form-item-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary js-form-item-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Clabel for=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary--2\u0022\u003EPrimary protection\u003C\/label\u003E\n        \u003Cinput data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary\u0022 type=\u0022text\u0022 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js-form-submit form-submit\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-submit\u0022 data-disable-refocus=\u0022true\u0022 type=\u0022submit\u0022 id=\u0022edit-submit--4\u0022 name=\u0022op\u0022 value=\u0022Kommentar senden\u0022 \/\u003E\n\u003C\/td\u003E\n    \u003C\/tr\u003E\n\u003C\/table\u003E\n\n\u003C\/form\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-nothing view-comment-row\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022js-ajax-comments-id-node-1314-field-comment-4710\u0022\u003E\n \u003Cdiv class=\u0022js-ajax-comments-id-4710\u0022\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\n  \u003C\/div\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv data-uuid=\u00222c49d0bb-77bb-4875-98f1-96af46424281\u0022 class=\u0022view-comment views-row comment-reply\u0022 style=\u0022--thread: 0\u0022\u003E\n      \n\n\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset view-comment-row\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-top\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-value\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022comment-count-wrapper\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022icon icon-corrigenda\u0022\u003E\u003C\/span\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022comment-count-value\u0022\u003E0\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset-3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-top-infos\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-name\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003ENepomuk\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-created\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003EVor 3 Monate\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset-1 view-comment-row\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-body\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-comment-body\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Cp\u003E\u003Cstrong class=\u0022highlight-green\u0022\u003E@Manfred M\u00fchlbacher\u003C\/strong\u003E Sie sind eben nicht nur f\u00fcr eine (weltanschauliche) \u00dcberzeugung gestorben (wie sagen-wir manch heldenhafter Protestant oder Kommunist, was ja bei aller Bewunderung, die es auch beim Gegner zeitigt, ihre Weltanschauung nicht best\u00e4tigt). Das ergibt sich dann zwar so quasi nebenbei \u2013 vor allem aber handelt es sich um etwas anderes:\u003C\/p\u003E\n\u003Cp\u003EUm eine Zeugenaussage. Sie haben den Auferstandenen selbst gesehen. Das war \u2013 einmal rein menschlich betrachtet und Gnade und Inspiration beiseitegesetzt \u2013 entweder eine wahrhaftige Zeugenaussage oder eine L\u00fcge. Was es nicht war, ist eine blo\u00dfe Meinungs\u00e4u\u00dferung in einer philosophischen Frage.\u003C\/p\u003E\n\u003Cp\u003EEin Mensch mag f\u00fcr eine richtige oder falsche philosophische \u003Cem\u003EMeinung \u003C\/em\u003Esterben (wobei mir \u003Cem\u003Eauch das\u003C\/em\u003E, sporadische Ausnahmen beiseitegesetzt, vor allem im christlichen Kulturkreis mit seiner Wertsch\u00e4tzung f\u00fcr das M\u00e4rtyrertum vorzukommen scheint, insofern zehren die z. B. Kommunisten vom christlichen Erbe). Ein Mensch ist aber \u003Cem\u003Enicht \u003C\/em\u003Ebereit, f\u00fcr eine falsche \u003Cem\u003ETatsachenbehauptung \u003C\/em\u003Ezu sterben, von der er in diesem Fall \u003Cem\u003Ew\u00fc\u00dfte\u003C\/em\u003E, da\u00df sie falsch w\u00e4re, zumal wenn diese ihm in den Jahren vor dem M\u00e4rtyrertod keineswegs ein Leben in Komfort und \u00dcberflu\u00df beschert hat.\u003C\/p\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset-2 view-comment-row\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-footer\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-replyto-comment\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Ca class=\u0022use-ajax js-use-ajax-comments js-ajax-comments-reply\u0022 href=\u0022\/ajax_comments\/reply\/node\/1314\/field_comments\/5000\u0022 hreflang=\u0022de\u0022\u003EAntworten\u003C\/a\u003E\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-comment-rate-widget-field\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022rate-widget thumbsup col-span-4 sm:col-span-6 md:col-span-12\u0022\u003E\u003Cform class=\u0022comment-article-5000-updown-recommend-comment-0 vote-form\u0022 id=\u0022rate-widget-base-form--3\u0022 data-uuid=\u00222c49d0bb-77bb-4875-98f1-96af46424281\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022comment-article-5000-updown-recommend-comment-0\u0022 novalidate=\u0022novalidate\u0022 action=\u0022\/ajax\/comments\/d1b8441e-b8f6-458a-b651-5099448aedf3\/replies\u0022 method=\u0022post\u0022 accept-charset=\u0022UTF-8\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Ctable class=\u0022rating-table\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Ctr class=\u0022rating-table-tr\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Ctd class=\u0022rating-table-td\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022thumbsup-rating-wrapper rate-enabled\u0022 can-edit=\u0022true\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022form-item js-form-item form-type-radio js-form-type-radio form-item-value js-form-item-value\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Clabel class=\u0022form-item js-form-item form-type-radio js-form-type-radio form-item-value js-form-item-value rating-label rating-label-thumbsup rating-label-thumbsup-up comment-thumbs-up\u0022\u003E\u003Cinput twig-suggestion=\u0022rating-input\u0022 class=\u0022rating-input thumbsup-rating-input form-radio\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-value-1-3\u0022 type=\u0022radio\u0022 id=\u0022edit-value-1--3\u0022 name=\u0022value\u0022 value=\u00221\u0022 \/\u003E\nEmpfehlen\n  \u003C\/label\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022rating-option-result\u0022\u003E0\u003C\/div\u003E\n    \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cinput autocomplete=\u0022off\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022form-16yu0ihathho-oonph9bj9fbck3nq-n6autiskel01u\u0022 type=\u0022hidden\u0022 name=\u0022form_build_id\u0022 value=\u0022form-16Yu0IhaTHho-ooNPh9BJ9FbCk3NQ_n6auTISkEl01U\u0022 \/\u003E\n\u003Cinput data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-comment-article-5000-updown-recommend-comment-0\u0022 type=\u0022hidden\u0022 name=\u0022form_id\u0022 value=\u0022comment_article_5000_updown_recommend_comment_0\u0022 \/\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class=\u0022arocom-antispam-container\u0022 style=\u0022display: none !important;\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022js-form-item form-item js-form-type-textfield form-item-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary js-form-item-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Clabel for=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary--3\u0022\u003EPrimary protection\u003C\/label\u003E\n        \u003Cinput data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary\u0022 type=\u0022text\u0022 id=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary--3\u0022 name=\u0022arocom_antispam[arocom_as_primary]\u0022 value=\u0022\u0022 size=\u002260\u0022 maxlength=\u0022128\u0022 class=\u0022form-text\u0022 \/\u003E\n\n        \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class=\u0022js-form-item form-item js-form-type-textfield form-item-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-secondary js-form-item-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-secondary\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Clabel for=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-secondary--3\u0022\u003ESecondary protection\u003C\/label\u003E\n        \u003Cinput data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-secondary\u0022 type=\u0022text\u0022 id=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-secondary--3\u0022 name=\u0022arocom_antispam[arocom_as_secondary]\u0022 value=\u0022\u0022 size=\u002260\u0022 maxlength=\u0022128\u0022 class=\u0022form-text\u0022 \/\u003E\n\n        \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003Cinput class=\u0022thumbsup-rating-submit button button--primary js-form-submit form-submit\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-submit\u0022 data-disable-refocus=\u0022true\u0022 type=\u0022submit\u0022 id=\u0022edit-submit--6\u0022 name=\u0022op\u0022 value=\u0022Kommentar senden\u0022 \/\u003E\n\u003C\/td\u003E\n    \u003C\/tr\u003E\n\u003C\/table\u003E\n\n\u003C\/form\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-nothing view-comment-row\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022js-ajax-comments-id-node-1314-field-comment-5000\u0022\u003E\n \u003Cdiv class=\u0022js-ajax-comments-id-5000\u0022\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\n  \u003C\/div\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv data-uuid=\u00222a214a2a-aa12-475f-b9ca-eda4c8b4e15b\u0022 class=\u0022view-comment views-row comment-reply\u0022 style=\u0022--thread: 0\u0022\u003E\n      \n\n\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset view-comment-row\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-top\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-value\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022comment-count-wrapper\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022icon icon-corrigenda\u0022\u003E\u003C\/span\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022comment-count-value\u0022\u003E0\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset-3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-top-infos\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-name\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003EManfred M\u00fchlbacher\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-created\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003EVor 1 Monat 2 Wochen\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset-1 view-comment-row\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-body\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-comment-body\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Cp\u003E\u003Cstrong class=\u0022highlight-green\u0022\u003E@Nepomuk\u003C\/strong\u003E Dein Argument unterscheidet zu Recht zwischen Weltanschauung und Tatsachenbehauptung. Allerdings setzt du stillschweigend voraus, dass nur zwei M\u00f6glichkeiten bestehen: bewusste L\u00fcge oder objektiv wahre Wahrnehmung. Damit blendest du eine dritte, historisch und psychologisch gut belegte Option aus: aufrichtige, aber irrige \u00dcberzeugung (Fehlwahrnehmung, Vision, kollektive Erwartungsdynamik).\u003C\/p\u003E\n\u003Cp\u003EZudem folgt aus \u201ejemand w\u00e4re nicht bereit, f\u00fcr eine wissentlich falsche Tatsachenbehauptung zu sterben\u201c lediglich, dass die Person subjektiv \u00fcberzeugt war \u2013 nicht, dass die behauptete Tatsache objektiv zutrifft. Zwischen Wahrhaftigkeit des Zeugen und Wahrheit des Ereignisses besteht ein kategorialer Unterschied.\u003C\/p\u003E\n\u003Cp\u003ESchlie\u00dflich ist auch die Annahme problematisch, M\u00e4rtyrer h\u00e4tten stets vollst\u00e4ndige Alternativen oder klare Widerrufsm\u00f6glichkeiten gehabt; historische Situationen sind oft komplexer.\u003C\/p\u003E\n\u003Cp\u003EVielleicht w\u00e4re die pr\u00e4zisere Frage nicht: \u201eW\u00fcrden sie f\u00fcr eine L\u00fcge sterben?\u201c, sondern: \u201eWelche Erkl\u00e4rung \u2013 L\u00fcge, Irrtum, Vision, Legendenbildung \u2013 ist historisch am plausibelsten?\u201c\u003C\/p\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset-2 view-comment-row\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-footer\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-replyto-comment\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Ca class=\u0022use-ajax js-use-ajax-comments js-ajax-comments-reply\u0022 href=\u0022\/ajax_comments\/reply\/node\/1314\/field_comments\/5272\u0022 hreflang=\u0022de\u0022\u003EAntworten\u003C\/a\u003E\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-comment-rate-widget-field\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022rate-widget thumbsup col-span-4 sm:col-span-6 md:col-span-12\u0022\u003E\u003Cform class=\u0022comment-article-5272-updown-recommend-comment-0 vote-form\u0022 id=\u0022rate-widget-base-form--4\u0022 data-uuid=\u00222a214a2a-aa12-475f-b9ca-eda4c8b4e15b\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022comment-article-5272-updown-recommend-comment-0\u0022 novalidate=\u0022novalidate\u0022 action=\u0022\/ajax\/comments\/d1b8441e-b8f6-458a-b651-5099448aedf3\/replies\u0022 method=\u0022post\u0022 accept-charset=\u0022UTF-8\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Ctable class=\u0022rating-table\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Ctr class=\u0022rating-table-tr\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Ctd class=\u0022rating-table-td\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022thumbsup-rating-wrapper rate-enabled\u0022 can-edit=\u0022true\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022form-item js-form-item form-type-radio js-form-type-radio form-item-value js-form-item-value\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Clabel class=\u0022form-item js-form-item form-type-radio js-form-type-radio form-item-value js-form-item-value rating-label rating-label-thumbsup rating-label-thumbsup-up comment-thumbs-up\u0022\u003E\u003Cinput twig-suggestion=\u0022rating-input\u0022 class=\u0022rating-input thumbsup-rating-input form-radio\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-value-1-4\u0022 type=\u0022radio\u0022 id=\u0022edit-value-1--4\u0022 name=\u0022value\u0022 value=\u00221\u0022 \/\u003E\nEmpfehlen\n  \u003C\/label\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022rating-option-result\u0022\u003E0\u003C\/div\u003E\n    \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cinput autocomplete=\u0022off\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022form-jnsoy2nc3uaejpp5-ebi66leq9y0ctcrckvsixu5qfk\u0022 type=\u0022hidden\u0022 name=\u0022form_build_id\u0022 value=\u0022form-JNSOY2NC3uaeJpP5_ebI66lEQ9y0ctcRCKvSIXu5QFk\u0022 \/\u003E\n\u003Cinput data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-comment-article-5272-updown-recommend-comment-0\u0022 type=\u0022hidden\u0022 name=\u0022form_id\u0022 value=\u0022comment_article_5272_updown_recommend_comment_0\u0022 \/\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class=\u0022arocom-antispam-container\u0022 style=\u0022display: none !important;\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022js-form-item form-item js-form-type-textfield form-item-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary js-form-item-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Clabel for=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary--4\u0022\u003EPrimary protection\u003C\/label\u003E\n        \u003Cinput data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary\u0022 type=\u0022text\u0022 id=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary--4\u0022 name=\u0022arocom_antispam[arocom_as_primary]\u0022 value=\u0022\u0022 size=\u002260\u0022 maxlength=\u0022128\u0022 class=\u0022form-text\u0022 \/\u003E\n\n        \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class=\u0022js-form-item form-item js-form-type-textfield form-item-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-secondary js-form-item-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-secondary\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Clabel for=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-secondary--4\u0022\u003ESecondary protection\u003C\/label\u003E\n        \u003Cinput data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-secondary\u0022 type=\u0022text\u0022 id=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-secondary--4\u0022 name=\u0022arocom_antispam[arocom_as_secondary]\u0022 value=\u0022\u0022 size=\u002260\u0022 maxlength=\u0022128\u0022 class=\u0022form-text\u0022 \/\u003E\n\n        \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003Cinput class=\u0022thumbsup-rating-submit button button--primary js-form-submit form-submit\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-submit\u0022 data-disable-refocus=\u0022true\u0022 type=\u0022submit\u0022 id=\u0022edit-submit--8\u0022 name=\u0022op\u0022 value=\u0022Kommentar senden\u0022 \/\u003E\n\u003C\/td\u003E\n    \u003C\/tr\u003E\n\u003C\/table\u003E\n\n\u003C\/form\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-nothing view-comment-row\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022js-ajax-comments-id-node-1314-field-comment-5272\u0022\u003E\n \u003Cdiv class=\u0022js-ajax-comments-id-5272\u0022\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\n  \u003C\/div\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv data-uuid=\u00226c0914f2-7894-4e0a-a14b-036059544156\u0022 class=\u0022view-comment views-row comment-reply\u0022 style=\u0022--thread: 0\u0022\u003E\n      \n\n\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset view-comment-row\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-top\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-value\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022comment-count-wrapper\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022icon icon-corrigenda\u0022\u003E\u003C\/span\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022comment-count-value\u0022\u003E0\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset-3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-top-infos\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-name\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003ENepomuk\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-created\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003EVor 1 Monat 2 Wochen\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset-1 view-comment-row\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-body\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-comment-body\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Cp\u003E\u003Cstrong class=\u0022highlight-green\u0022\u003E@Manfred M\u00fchlbacher\u003C\/strong\u003E Da\u00df nur diese zwei M\u00f6glichkeiten bestehen, setze ich, so viel Pr\u00e4zision mu\u00df sein, nicht \u0022stillschweigend\u0022 voraus, sondern das habe ich ganz explizit gesagt.\u003C\/p\u003E\n\u003Cp\u003EFehlwahrnehmungen, Visionen und kollektive Erwartungsdynamik scheitern n\u00e4mlich an der Hl. Schrift \u2013 die beschreiben sich ganz anders. Die kollektive Erwartung war gerade die umgekehrte. Die Apostel mu\u00dften m\u00fchsam von der Tatsache der Auferstehung \u00fcberzeugt werden.\u003C\/p\u003E\n\u003Cp\u003ESicher: Man kann nicht f\u00fcr die Wahrheit der Hl. Schrift mit der Wahrheit der Hl. Schrift argumentieren. D. h. f\u00fcr den Augenblick m\u00fcssen wir den Gedanken, so sehr er abst\u00f6\u00dft, noch hypothetisch zulassen, da\u00df das alles erschwindelt w\u00e4re. Da\u00df sie ganz abgefeimt sich als Zweifelnde und eben nicht in eine Phantasie Hineingesteigerte beschrieben h\u00e4tten, auf da\u00df ihnen der Leser umso mehr glaube. \u2013 Der Punkt ist: Das h\u00e4tten sie \u2013 wieder \u2013 wenn, dann \u003Cem\u003Ebewu\u00dft\u003C\/em\u003E machen m\u00fcssen.\u003C\/p\u003E\n\u003Cp\u003EMan kommt mit den Mitteln normalen, nat\u00fcrlichen Leseverst\u00e4ndnisses vielleicht nicht so weit, da\u00df die Auferstehungsberichte wahr sein m\u00fcssen \u2013 aber man \u003Cem\u003Ekommt \u003C\/em\u003Eso weit, da\u00df sie keine gutgl\u00e4ubige Halluzination sein k\u00f6nnen. Also sind sie entweder wahr oder eine bewu\u00dfte L\u00fcge; und f\u00fcr die w\u00fcrde, wie gesagt, niemand sterben, es sei denn vielleicht, sie h\u00e4tte ihm vorher ein Leben in Komfort und \u00dcberflu\u00df verschafft, was nicht der Fall war.\u003C\/p\u003E\n\u003Cp\u003E\u0026gt;\u0026gt;Zwischen Wahrhaftigkeit des Zeugen und Wahrheit des Ereignisses besteht ein kategorialer Unterschied.\u003C\/p\u003E\n\u003Cp\u003EGewi\u00df (auch wenn ich nicht wei\u00df, was genau Du mit \u0022kategorial\u0022 meinst). Glaubw\u00fcrdige Zeugenaussagen sind genau das, glaubw\u00fcrdige Zeugenaussagen. Aus ihnen folgt nicht \u003Cem\u003Emathematisch zwingend \u003C\/em\u003Edie Wahrheit des Ausgesagten, wohl aber lassen sie darauf, insbesondere mehrere \u00fcbereinstimmend, \u003Cem\u003Eschlie\u00dfen. \u003C\/em\u003EEinem Gericht w\u00fcrde das reichen. Und mindestens die Beweislast verschiebt sich hin zu dem, der die Zeugenaussage bestreiten w\u00fcrde.\u003C\/p\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset-2 view-comment-row\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-footer\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-replyto-comment\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Ca class=\u0022use-ajax js-use-ajax-comments js-ajax-comments-reply\u0022 href=\u0022\/ajax_comments\/reply\/node\/1314\/field_comments\/5293\u0022 hreflang=\u0022de\u0022\u003EAntworten\u003C\/a\u003E\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-comment-rate-widget-field\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022rate-widget thumbsup col-span-4 sm:col-span-6 md:col-span-12\u0022\u003E\u003Cform class=\u0022comment-article-5293-updown-recommend-comment-0 vote-form\u0022 id=\u0022rate-widget-base-form--5\u0022 data-uuid=\u00226c0914f2-7894-4e0a-a14b-036059544156\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022comment-article-5293-updown-recommend-comment-0\u0022 novalidate=\u0022novalidate\u0022 action=\u0022\/ajax\/comments\/d1b8441e-b8f6-458a-b651-5099448aedf3\/replies\u0022 method=\u0022post\u0022 accept-charset=\u0022UTF-8\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Ctable class=\u0022rating-table\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Ctr class=\u0022rating-table-tr\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Ctd class=\u0022rating-table-td\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022thumbsup-rating-wrapper rate-enabled\u0022 can-edit=\u0022true\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022form-item js-form-item form-type-radio js-form-type-radio form-item-value js-form-item-value\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Clabel class=\u0022form-item js-form-item form-type-radio js-form-type-radio form-item-value js-form-item-value rating-label rating-label-thumbsup rating-label-thumbsup-up comment-thumbs-up\u0022\u003E\u003Cinput twig-suggestion=\u0022rating-input\u0022 class=\u0022rating-input thumbsup-rating-input form-radio\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-value-1-5\u0022 type=\u0022radio\u0022 id=\u0022edit-value-1--5\u0022 name=\u0022value\u0022 value=\u00221\u0022 \/\u003E\nEmpfehlen\n  \u003C\/label\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022rating-option-result\u0022\u003E0\u003C\/div\u003E\n    \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cinput autocomplete=\u0022off\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022form-ig1alicuhkp3vskbolp2pkaoewu5yx-rw5f0tx8sqa\u0022 type=\u0022hidden\u0022 name=\u0022form_build_id\u0022 value=\u0022form-_ig1aliCUHKp3VskBOlp2pKAOeWu5YX_rW5F0tX8SQA\u0022 \/\u003E\n\u003Cinput data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-comment-article-5293-updown-recommend-comment-0\u0022 type=\u0022hidden\u0022 name=\u0022form_id\u0022 value=\u0022comment_article_5293_updown_recommend_comment_0\u0022 \/\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class=\u0022arocom-antispam-container\u0022 style=\u0022display: none !important;\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022js-form-item form-item js-form-type-textfield form-item-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary js-form-item-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Clabel for=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary--5\u0022\u003EPrimary protection\u003C\/label\u003E\n        \u003Cinput data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary\u0022 type=\u0022text\u0022 id=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary--5\u0022 name=\u0022arocom_antispam[arocom_as_primary]\u0022 value=\u0022\u0022 size=\u002260\u0022 maxlength=\u0022128\u0022 class=\u0022form-text\u0022 \/\u003E\n\n        \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class=\u0022js-form-item form-item js-form-type-textfield form-item-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-secondary js-form-item-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-secondary\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Clabel for=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-secondary--5\u0022\u003ESecondary protection\u003C\/label\u003E\n        \u003Cinput data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-secondary\u0022 type=\u0022text\u0022 id=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-secondary--5\u0022 name=\u0022arocom_antispam[arocom_as_secondary]\u0022 value=\u0022\u0022 size=\u002260\u0022 maxlength=\u0022128\u0022 class=\u0022form-text\u0022 \/\u003E\n\n        \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003Cinput class=\u0022thumbsup-rating-submit button button--primary js-form-submit form-submit\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-submit\u0022 data-disable-refocus=\u0022true\u0022 type=\u0022submit\u0022 id=\u0022edit-submit--10\u0022 name=\u0022op\u0022 value=\u0022Kommentar senden\u0022 \/\u003E\n\u003C\/td\u003E\n    \u003C\/tr\u003E\n\u003C\/table\u003E\n\n\u003C\/form\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-nothing view-comment-row\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022js-ajax-comments-id-node-1314-field-comment-5293\u0022\u003E\n \u003Cdiv class=\u0022js-ajax-comments-id-5293\u0022\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\n  \u003C\/div\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv data-uuid=\u0022f7ecc470-3ee4-4bbf-bfcd-b334e9dee82a\u0022 class=\u0022view-comment views-row comment-reply\u0022 style=\u0022--thread: 0\u0022\u003E\n      \n\n\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset view-comment-row\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-top\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-value\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022comment-count-wrapper\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022icon icon-corrigenda\u0022\u003E\u003C\/span\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022comment-count-value\u0022\u003E0\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset-3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-top-infos\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-name\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003ENepomuk\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-created\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003EVor 1 Monat 2 Wochen\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset-1 view-comment-row\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-body\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-comment-body\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Cp\u003E\u003Cstrong class=\u0022highlight-green\u0022\u003E@Manfred M\u00fchlbacher\u003C\/strong\u003E\u003C\/p\u003E\n\u003Cp\u003EVielleicht ist aber ohnehin die wichtigere Frage, insbesondere da Du, selbst wenn Du (als Hypothese, ich wei\u00df) die subjektive Wahrhaftigkeit der Zeugen zugestehst, dann sofort die (f\u00fcr sich genommen, mit dem richtigen Ma\u00df der Betonung bei \u0027zwingend\u0027, gewi\u00df richtige) Einschr\u00e4nkung \u0022das \u003Cem\u003Emu\u00df ja nicht zwingend hei\u00dfen\u003C\/em\u003E, da\u00df ihre Aussage auch objektiv wahr ist\u0022 aus der Schublade hervorkramst... ob Dir denn diese Wahrheit eine unerw\u00fcnschte w\u00e4re.\u003C\/p\u003E\n\u003Cp\u003E\u0026gt;\u0026gt;Was w\u00e4re ein guter Grund ohne Zirkelschlu\u00df an die Existenz eines allwissenden, allm\u00e4chtigen und g\u00fctigen Gottes, der alles erschaffen hat und uns liebt zu glauben?\u003C\/p\u003E\n\u003Cp\u003EDu klingst so, als w\u00e4rest Du Dir nicht nur unsicher, ob das stimmt, sondern a) als hieltest Du es f\u00fcr nachgerade unwahrscheinlich, b) als f\u00e4ndest Du es au\u00dferdem gar nicht sch\u00f6n, wenn es doch so w\u00e4re. Warum a? Warum b? Oder t\u00e4usche ich mich in der Einsch\u00e4tzung?\u003C\/p\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-fieldset-2 view-comment-row\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E  \u003Cdiv  class=\u0022view-comment-wrapper-comment-footer\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-replyto-comment\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Ca class=\u0022use-ajax js-use-ajax-comments js-ajax-comments-reply\u0022 href=\u0022\/ajax_comments\/reply\/node\/1314\/field_comments\/5294\u0022 hreflang=\u0022de\u0022\u003EAntworten\u003C\/a\u003E\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022views-field views-field-comment-rate-widget-field\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022field-content\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022rate-widget thumbsup col-span-4 sm:col-span-6 md:col-span-12\u0022\u003E\u003Cform class=\u0022comment-article-5294-updown-recommend-comment-0 vote-form\u0022 id=\u0022rate-widget-base-form--6\u0022 data-uuid=\u0022f7ecc470-3ee4-4bbf-bfcd-b334e9dee82a\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022comment-article-5294-updown-recommend-comment-0\u0022 novalidate=\u0022novalidate\u0022 action=\u0022\/ajax\/comments\/d1b8441e-b8f6-458a-b651-5099448aedf3\/replies\u0022 method=\u0022post\u0022 accept-charset=\u0022UTF-8\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Ctable class=\u0022rating-table\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Ctr class=\u0022rating-table-tr\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Ctd class=\u0022rating-table-td\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022thumbsup-rating-wrapper rate-enabled\u0022 can-edit=\u0022true\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022form-item js-form-item form-type-radio js-form-type-radio form-item-value js-form-item-value\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Clabel class=\u0022form-item js-form-item form-type-radio js-form-type-radio form-item-value js-form-item-value rating-label rating-label-thumbsup rating-label-thumbsup-up comment-thumbs-up\u0022\u003E\u003Cinput twig-suggestion=\u0022rating-input\u0022 class=\u0022rating-input thumbsup-rating-input form-radio\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-value-1-6\u0022 type=\u0022radio\u0022 id=\u0022edit-value-1--6\u0022 name=\u0022value\u0022 value=\u00221\u0022 \/\u003E\nEmpfehlen\n  \u003C\/label\u003E\n      \u003Cdiv class=\u0022rating-option-result\u0022\u003E0\u003C\/div\u003E\n    \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cinput autocomplete=\u0022off\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022form-zvdsxohctxjo1rg2zunfkcei7zq5k6tytbow4s9bf-y\u0022 type=\u0022hidden\u0022 name=\u0022form_build_id\u0022 value=\u0022form-ZvdSXOhctxjO1RG2zuNfkcEi7ZQ5k6TYTbOW4s9bF-Y\u0022 \/\u003E\n\u003Cinput data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-comment-article-5294-updown-recommend-comment-0\u0022 type=\u0022hidden\u0022 name=\u0022form_id\u0022 value=\u0022comment_article_5294_updown_recommend_comment_0\u0022 \/\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class=\u0022arocom-antispam-container\u0022 style=\u0022display: none !important;\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam\u0022\u003E\u003Cdiv class=\u0022js-form-item form-item js-form-type-textfield form-item-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary js-form-item-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Clabel for=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary--6\u0022\u003EPrimary protection\u003C\/label\u003E\n        \u003Cinput data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary\u0022 type=\u0022text\u0022 id=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-primary--6\u0022 name=\u0022arocom_antispam[arocom_as_primary]\u0022 value=\u0022\u0022 size=\u002260\u0022 maxlength=\u0022128\u0022 class=\u0022form-text\u0022 \/\u003E\n\n        \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003Cdiv class=\u0022js-form-item form-item js-form-type-textfield form-item-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-secondary js-form-item-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-secondary\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Clabel for=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-secondary--6\u0022\u003ESecondary protection\u003C\/label\u003E\n        \u003Cinput data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-secondary\u0022 type=\u0022text\u0022 id=\u0022edit-arocom-antispam-arocom-as-secondary--6\u0022 name=\u0022arocom_antispam[arocom_as_secondary]\u0022 value=\u0022\u0022 size=\u002260\u0022 maxlength=\u0022128\u0022 class=\u0022form-text\u0022 \/\u003E\n\n        \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003Cinput class=\u0022thumbsup-rating-submit button button--primary js-form-submit form-submit\u0022 data-drupal-selector=\u0022edit-submit\u0022 data-disable-refocus=\u0022true\u0022 type=\u0022submit\u0022 id=\u0022edit-submit--12\u0022 name=\u0022op\u0022 value=\u0022Kommentar senden\u0022 \/\u003E\n\u003C\/td\u003E\n    \u003C\/tr\u003E\n\u003C\/table\u003E\n\n\u003C\/form\u003E\n\u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E  \u003C\/div\u003E\n\u003C\/span\u003E\u003C\/div\u003E\u003Cdiv 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